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BernieBros, daughters, equal rights, gender pay gap, humor, mothers, politics, sisters
Open Letter to My Daughters and Nieces:
I owe you all an apology. When you were babies, we told you that you could grow up to be anything you wanted. When Daughter #3 said she wanted to be a Zamboni driver, I assured her that she could be the greatest one ever. I just didn’t mention to her that the odds are good she’d be driving that Zamboni unpaid 133 days per year—to make up for making only about 2/3 of the pay of the average man doing a similar job.
Back when my generation tooled up to University on our dinosaurs, we had it all figured out. We had the vote, so we controlled our political future. We had the Pill and Roe V Wade, so we controlled our reproductive rights. We’d never heard of Aids, nobody marched for breast cancer, and penicillin cured STDs, so we would live forever. We were going to pass the Equal Rights Amendment any second now, start fabulous careers, raise amazing families, and Have. It. All. My seven sisters—your aunts—and I became engineers, teachers, bankers, lawyers, urban planners, and even (I’m sorry to say) Human Resources executives.
![[Image credit: Green] https://blog.greens.org.nz/2009/12/21/end-of-a-shameful-year-for-pay-equity/](https://barbtaub.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/that-explains-the-difference2-196x300.jpg?w=529)
According to the World Economic Forum’s recent Global Gender Gap report, not only do American women get paid an average of 64% of the salary of men doing similar jobs, but that score puts them 73 places behind Rwanda. Yes. Rwanda. [Image credit: Green]
Now my sisters and I are grownups who have had decades-long professional careers and most of us have been parents. Only somehow…we must have forgotten to check off a few action items on our to-do lists. Because that equality stuff hasn’t actually happened yet and you, our children, are adults. Some of you have daughters of your own.
This week your aunts and I were talking about a letter in Amy Dickenson’s syndicated column, “Ask Amy: Advice for the Real World” (here) from a young woman asking about the best timing for having a baby and establishing a career. Woman Who Wants It All wrote (in part):
“I planned to have a child in the 30-32 range, which is when I will be new to my field. I want to be taken seriously as a professional but not miss my window for having a baby. I would love to hear from you about the “best way” to make it work.”
Amy’s response was nothing we haven’t heard before. After dismissing the young woman’s fears—that “women who have children are not ‘taken seriously’ in the workplace”—as baseless, Amy goes on to suggest starting that first great job before having children.
My sister, a well-educated professional and mother of five, was not impressed with Amy’s advice. Here is her letter published on February 2, 2016. With her permission, I’m quoting her entire letter.
DEAR AMY: I’m responding to the letter from “Woman Who Wants It All” regarding the timing of having a baby. My advice is that she must be prepared for how it will affect her career.
You can “lean in” as much as you want — but unless you own the company or have the resources for 24-hour nanny care, you will be treated differently from the guy in the next cubicle who also has children at home. I hope she has the bandwidth to maintain family, career, and continue to stand up for equal rights.
I am an engineer. In the 1980s we saw technical programs opening up to women as a result of affirmative action. Unfortunately, things have gone in the other direction — with fewer women making successful careers in STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) related fields.
I was in a meeting recently with some of the top men (including the head of engineering) at our company. The conference room was full. During my presentation I looked around the room and thought, “I have been working for 20-plus years and I am still the only woman in the room.” I was also the lowest-ranking person in the room.
Just some realistic food for thought. — Woman in STEM
My sisters and I found Amy’s response—DEAR STEM: Preach, sister.—deeply unsatisfying.
EMAILS to our family shared list:
Sister #1:
If any of you read the Ask Amy advice column, check out the snarky letter from the middle aged female engineer today. Yah. Its me.
I have never responded to these, but this woman was concerned that having a child would affect her career. Amy’s response was to ‘reject that unfortunate assumption’.
ACK !
In reality there is no denying that a woman’s professional career is impacted by a child much more than a man’s is. Even if they are splitting the care – the perception in the work force is that a mommy can not do what a daddy can. Not only that – but any woman who CAN, is a damn freak of nature and should be diminished in the hopes that her kind doesn’t become the norm.
Bitter you say ? maybe a little …
Sister #2:
One of the many things I love about [my career in] government is the diversity. And it extends beyond race, gender, and orientation. My colleagues come from all walks of life. And same goes for senior management. (Except Republicans . . . We just don’t have many in Chicago.)
Sister #3:
Yah – I get it. There are exceptions to the rule. However …
We just received a message from our COMPANY LEADERSHIP TEAM.
10 men, 1 woman
Do the math.
Sister #4:
I also work in a team of all men, but the main difference for me is that when my daughter was in Kindergarten, I went to a 30 hour work week. The real plus of that, was that I felt I was in control of deciding when to put in extra hours, and I didn’t have to travel for work. So, I may not have reached the pay-grade that I could have, but it was totally worth it.
Sister #5:
Yah – the part time gig has been used and used and used.
However, we have some actual MEN here (whose wives have left them and they are responsible for their children) who work a part time flexible schedule and GUESS WHAT ? They are still promoted to higher positions than their female peers.
I have been in on meetings where people are wondering if a woman (30+) should be promoted given that she hasn’t had any kids yet, so what is going to happen in the next couple years ??? AND no one ever (well, except me) mentions that maybe we should factor in the male tendency to have a heart attack and mess up the schedule by being out of work…
When I start to get worked up about this sh** , I realize that I have it a lot easier than a black, gay, woman … so yah, lets look on the sunny side, right ?
Sister #6:
It’s depressing as my youngest daughter is about to start an engineering career on Monday. I feel frustrated, like this is something we were supposed to have fixed and we let our daughters down.
Sister #7:
Years ago one of my friends, Bob, played in a band. He was tall, good looking and white. One time the band’s manager was not available to book a gig and he sent my friend Bob to do it. It was at a popular bar downtown. All went well. However, when the band arrived and the owners of the bar saw that the lead singer was a black female they had second thoughts. The upshot was the band played but for A LOWER PRICE. Bob was shocked. He didn’t think that type of discrimination happened in [towns like ours]. The band manager (also black) response was ‘That’s because it does not happen to YOU’ I have always remembered that.
When I talk about the discrepancy between male/female roles here at work – it is easily brushed off. The managers I speak to can’t imagine that happening HERE. They think we (females) are overreacting. That’s because it does not happen to THEM.
All you have to do is take a walk around any engineering building. Females are NOT represented proportionately to the population. Females as MANAGERS are not represented proportionate to the number of women at work. And, finally, women on the leadership teams (highest level of management) are almost non-existent.
Companies are quick to trot out a woman who had made it to the top. She is quoted gushingly encouraging girls to strive for the top of the math/science fields. Great PR. However, although I absolutely agree than girls are CAPABLE of achieving the highest levels in math/science, the chances they will get the opportunity to perform at that level are VERY VERY VERY SMALL.
And it bugs the hell out of me.
So, my daughters and nieces—why am I apologizing to you today? Sure, I wish we could have fixed this. We should have fixed it by now. Instead, even as we are looking to choose a leader from the most diverse “applicant pool” in the USA’s history, the conversation keeps coming back to the same points. The pay difference is just how we keep score.
Tina Fey brings it up in her tragically funny “Confessions of a Juggler” article for the New Yorker when she asks:
What is the rudest question you can ask a woman? “How old are you?” “What do you weigh?” “When you and your twin sister are alone with Mr. Hefner, do you have to pretend to be lesbians?” No, the worst question is: “How do you juggle it all?”
My own daughter, Amanda Taub, addresses it in her article for Vox (here) on Bernie Sander’s sexist, misogynist supporters, the BernieBros. The conversation about whether Bernie’s supporters are heroes or trolls who can affect the presidential race is, Amanda argues, a red herring.
When Hillary Clinton gets criticized for “shouting,” even though Bernie Sanders is beloved for speaking in a register that seems calculated to drown out every Goldman Sachs banker in a 5-mile radius, we know what that really means — and that it means the same thing for us. When we hear that she’s not “likable,” we know what that really means — and what it means for us. When we hear that she’s bossy, we know what that really means — and what it means for us.
It’s not about the gender pay gap. It’s about the gender coded messages that say it’s fine for women to make it to the top, as long as they know their place and have great hair and the right shoes and don’t mind warping their children’s lives with their utter failure to nurture them.
So I’m sorry. We didn’t fix the world. I hope you do a better job than we did. And I hope you do it before your daughters have to figure out why it’s only women who have to ask how to have it all.
2013 Clip from “Scandal”: Lisa Kudrow as a Congresswoman running for President
That was excellent Barb!
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Thanks!
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Many may not like hearing this, but since we’re talking about a realistic worked, I’ll say it. The most recent advance in women’s equality is an incredibly dangerous and totally unnecessary one. Women in combat units, which was recently directed. This is the biggest mistake and – to women yet. I”m not talking about women in the military (that’s not an issue), but women in infantry units. This is wrong and unworkable at so many levels. I say this based on being an infantryman, paratrooper, and Green Beret for 26 years. You don’t want to go there and it is totally unnecessary.
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Thanks, Gordo. Your opinion is an expert one, based on your background and experience. I personally have no desire to be part of a combat unit. I wouldn’t want my daughter there, or my son. But I know women with military experience, including those who’ve served in combat situations in other countries. They say that comments like yours remind them of comments from people who warned about mixing races in military units. Or other gender preferences. The past has proven them wrong. I’d like to believe that the future will prove such roles unnecessary. I need to believe that the future will prove your opinion wrong.
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Excellent post. Not a HRC fan, but love the message. Even in a female dominated profession, like nursing, we ladies always got paid less than those men who came aboard. My supervisor once said it was because the male nurses had to cover orderly duties as well…as if us nurses never covered nursing assistant duties like walking someone to the bathroom, pushing a wheelchair from point A to point B, lifting and turning heavy patients (rarely were males available). I hear it’s even worse now, with more males in the field.
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I was in human resources, a historically woman-dominated field. And yet, when I attended meetings of other top HR execs, somehow they were mostly men. I’d look at them and think, “Where did you guys all come from?”
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Top of the food chain. Here in Florida, I’m as concerned about our our very red congressmen, senators and Governor as I am the Presidency. Florida is full of millionaires, and we’re not poor, but the structure in Florida favors the wealthy and our children can’t earn living wage here. You’re either wealthy or living in poverty and/or government assistance…there is very little in-between, even for the college educated, because the cost of living is so high. I paid for my grandson to go to day care for two days a week since my daughter broke her foot…just to help out and give her some down-time. It was $420.00 just for two days a week for four weeks. That’s insane. Eight days. He loves “school” and would be bored to tears here, but sheesh, for that kind of money I could keep him here and hire a clown to keep him entertained. There’s a clown service here that advertises a clown for a day for $50.00, that would save me $2.00 a day.
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OR… in southern CA, some parents figured out it was cheaper and easier to buy a season’s pass for the summer and drop their kids at Disney every day instead of arranging daycare, etc. How close are you to Orlando?
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Hahaha. If they were older I’d try it. We’re in Downtown Orlando, but far north of Disney.
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Bravo, Barb!! The only thing more frustrating than the lack of progress in this arena in recent years is the fact that some people want to gloss over things and pretend that equality actually has been achieved. Nope. Not there yet.
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When we live in a world where technology changes everything in the blink of an eye, it’s hard to accept that social change is so slow.
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Indeed. But as you say, our daughters (or in my case, niece) are not likely to stand for it, since they were raised to believe that they deserve equality. (Btw, I was in HR one upon a lifetime ago, also. Kept bumping my head against that damn glass ceiling so I went back to school and became a therapist.)
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Wow! I’ve always wondered about what drives a blogger. It seems like so much time and effort. But – I’ve got to tell you – it was very cathartic to READ my message on a blog that is read by many people. I don’t care if its not millions. thankyou for writing that – and you are right, we did fail. But I will say I tried. My best.
On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Barb Taub wrote:
> barbtaub posted: “Open Letter to My Daughters and Nieces: I owe you all an > apology. When you were babies, we told you that you could grow up to be > anything you wanted. When Daughter #3 said she wanted to be a Zamboni > driver, I assured her that she could be the greatest on” >
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I think most of us tried our best. But the attitudes are so deeply ingrained. I’m reminded of my husband’s female boss who wanted to know why he was taking off work to go to our infant son’s well-baby doctor’s visit. And I quote: “Can’t your wife do that?”
His response, bless him: “Uh, she works too, and he’s my son. I want to hear what the doctor has to say about his health.”
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Thanks again, Mary. I’m so proud of you for all that you’ve accomplished, for the example you’ve set for your amazing family, and especially now for speaking up about your experience.
And I was wrong. You didn’t fail. You just haven’t succeeded—yet.
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Honestly, I don’t think much has really changed. People have just learned “the talk” but women are still looked at as more dispensable than men. Just look at TV, women are still objectified and lumped into categories with gambling, booze and drugs. What the heck. And don’t even get me started on women in the military, something of which I have a whole bunch of experience, 18 years in the military. Women are totally second class citizens, sexual harassment is rampant, and I never got the impression that women were really taken seriously, they were just tolerated.
Great post!!!!
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I’m sorry—but not surprised—to hear about your experience. But even though our generation has failed, I am so amazed and impressed by our daughters. They aren’t buying the second-class status, and I think…I BELIEVE…they won’t stand for it.
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I think you are right!!!!
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i like your article, very inspiring and thank you fo your post
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Thanks so much!
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Thanks, Barb. If it’s true it’s true and there’s no denying it. But if some people refuse to believe it they’re purposely blind in that way. They don’t want to believe it so they ignore it. Men are probably afraid of women taking over. A lot of discrimination, in my opinion, is fear, pure and simple. This was a great piece. I emailed it to my daughter — Suzanne
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Thanks! Especially for that last line. I hope your daughter likes it.
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Excellent piece, Barb… and I’d read your daughter’s piece at Vox (not realizing she was your daughter!) and it was also excellent. Beyond the more generalized — and continuing — sexism in our world, the brittle tone it’s taken on in this current election cycle is really disturbing. I suspect that a great many “bros” wreaking havoc out there are less invested in the nuts-and-bolts politics of their candidate and more in the bandwagonry of a perceived “anti-establishment movement”… which appears to include the “glee of misogyny.”
The issues related to women’s rights, opportunities, inequities, etc., remain ones that prick at the skin of many women (and good men) but, much like racism, are dismissed or diminished by some who persist we’re either “post-(fill in the blank)” or it’s all being blown out of proportion. That neither is true is what is so disturbing; that we need to keep attention on the topic is clear.
I have to admit: while there are many reasons I support Hillary Clinton, smashing the shit out of that particular glass ceiling is certainly one of them! And that ain’t my damn vagina speaking (thank you, Susan Sarandon); it’s my very wise and wizened head! 🙂
Thanks for your insightful and beautifully articulated perspective, Barb.
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“You’re welcome!” my damn vagina doesn’t say either…
What a wonderful comment. I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to read through my rant.
And as I was reading these comments, I realized that maybe we haven’t failed. Maybe we just haven’t succeeded yet. My daughters, nieces, daughter-in-law, and most woman (and many men) from their generation describe themselves as proud feminists. And that looks a little bit like winning to me.
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Love this letter to the daughters, Barb, and just as important that it’s cc’d to the sons.
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You’re so right!
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Eleven years after this bill was signed, I attempted to become a police officer. I was told that they were only accepting applicants who were 5’10” or taller. That they were only taking a certain amount of women as applicants. That they weren’t hiring female officers right now, or that they already had “a” female police officer. (Apparently that meant they no longer had
to comply with the law.) It would take pages and pages to detail all the “reasons” taht women weren’t being hired. But we got in. And, we stayed in and fought the discrimination. I finally retired after 30 years as an officer. Is the discrimination gone? Nope. But it is better. We fought hard to make it better. Now it’s the next generation’s turn to keep fighting to “make it right.” Apparently, changing generations of preconceived biases isn’t easy. That’s no reason to give up. My advice to your daughters? Keep fighting discrimination until it is fair.
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I was wrong. So wrong. We might not have won—yet—but we haven’t failed. With women like you leading, our daughters will have strong hands to help them along. Thank you.
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